Lulu interview, copyright Victoria Mary Clarke, 2002-10-23

My father and mother had this thing about keeping secrets.  But when you keep secrets, you are holding onto darkness and in the dark, nothing grows.  Family secrets are shame from the past that you carry with you.  But I’m not someone who throws up every single intimate detail.
There was one detail which I loved, that was David Bowie’s gorgeous thighs!
Of course I might have talked about David Bowie and the fact that I had a fling with him, but the only thing that reveals that is the thigh part.  I got a close up of them.
Describe them.
Well, actually when he was Ziggy Stardust, he wore shorts with no tights, so you did see them!
You went for Capricorn men.
Yes, I used to think I was only into Capricorns-Scott Walker, Davy Jones, Bowie.  What’s Eric Clapton?  Probably Aries.
You turned him down.
Oh yes but I regretted it. And when I decided that I fancied him, he wasn’t interested.  Ha ha ha.
You’ve had fantastic opportunities with men.  Do they make men like that anymore?
Actually no, they don’t.  I was living at the best possible time.  Are they all wimps now?  Oh God!  This is terrible I have to really think about this.  Who is hot and sexy and edgy?  I can’t think of anyone.  But I don’t always go for the hot, sexy ones, I like the broody ones.  Moody and broody.
Isn’t that asking for trouble?
Yes.  Ha ha ha.  Don’t we like a little bit of trouble?  Laughs uproariously.  I mean Scott Walker, excuse me.  You can’t get more reclusive.
Alcoholics, you seem to like.
Well hello!
You seemed to think Maurice was normal.
Well my father drank in the mornings.  But he didn’t do it at home.  That’s what I was comfortable with and then it became uncomfortable.  But also if your father is an alcoholic, how present is he going to be?  My second husband wasn’t present either.  He was a workaholic.
How do you get over that?
I’m going to try not to get involved with a man who isn’t going to be there.
Is that possible?
To be attracted to another type?  You have to be very conscious about it.  There is a marvellous story about how you walk down a road and you fall down a hole.  And you get angry and say Who did this to me?  And you walk down the same street the next day and you fall down the same hole.  And you complain again and this goes on for four or five days, until you decide not to take that road.  And then you say I can get out and nobody did this to me.  And you take responsibility.
Also in your relationships, you seem to fit in with everyone else, rather than doing what you want.
That would be true.  Not so much now, but that’s how it had to be when I was young.  They say the pattern is set in the first seven years.
Your mother was obsessed with you.
She was very needy of me.  I knew about her pain, she was resentful because she was told lies, as a child.  To find out that you were the only one in the family to have been adopted, how is that going to make you feel?  That you are not good enough and nobody wants you.  I think it’s really important to tell children that they are special, to nurture them and make them feel precious.  My mother was insecure and I was the first thing that really belonged to her.  And being a bright little thing, I took on responsibility very quickly and my mother and I were more like friends.  I tried to give her what she had never had, God knows, I tried.  And then, when I became Lulu, I got separated from her and my eyes were opened.
But you tried to parent your husband.
That’s what I did.  My friend always tells me Don’t try to be their mother.  But old habits die hard.  I do have a maternal nature, but it can be damaging, when I take it to extremes.
Your mother also seemed to get her self esteem from clothes and shoes and things.  Like a pop-star.
So where do you think I got that from? Ha ha ha.
Could she have been a pop-star?
I don’t know what my mother’s hidden talent was.  But in the life that she led, her gift was keeping us together, as a family.  That was her vocation.  Making sure we kept in touch and supported each other.
Did you get your singing voice from her?
No, from my dad.  She thought she was a good singer, but she wasn’t.  He was a great singer.  She was always very religious, but becoming a Mormon really helped to soothe her pain.
It’s the only way, if you don’t get in touch with that, what is there?  I always knew that and I got that from her.  We always said our prayers, and thanked God.  I followed the Eastern path, but as a family we have embraced a lot of religions.
I follow Kashmir Shavism, which is not unlike Buddhisn. 
How does that work?
It’s very simple, meditation, reading. You have to ask yourself the important questions, like why am I here?  Where am I going?  It’s about being conscious and vigilant.  When you meditate, you turn inside and find the answers, where they lie and you find the strength.  Also you find acceptance.  I am somebody who is quite hard on myself.  I am not inflexible, though.
I know it was important to your mother to always look young.  People say about you that you look fantastic for your age, as if this is the most important thing about you.
Of course I am just like my mother, but it’s also a Glasgow thing.
In the book, you say that even if they didn’t have enough to eat, Glaswegians always have the right clothes.
Hair, too.  All of Glasgow regaled me, when I married my hairdresser!  I had made it!
They are proud people.
Oh, yes.
But being obsessed with your looks doesn’t fit with Eastern mysticism, does it?  Surely the whole point would be to drop your ego.
It doesn’t mean you can’t look good!
Having met you, I realise that what you look like isn’t the most attractive thing about you.
But most people don’t want to look that deep.
You had some very deep men. 
I have always liked deep, dark men.  I come from a family of alcoholics! 
John Lennon, you said you were in love with.
I think I was slightly afraid of him.  He was married to Cynthia, who was my friend and when he, at one point suggested something to me, part of me was ‘Oh my God, how fantastic!”  And the other part was “Oh my God, how awful!”
The part of me that wants to not lose control would not go there.  I consciously don’t go to the dark side of my nature. 
Have you ever given yourself permission to not be bright and breezy?
Ha ha ha.  Not on a public stage, no.
I would love to hear you sing a Nick Cave song.  I think you could.
Of course, but I wouldn’t do it!  It’s like pooping in the street to me, for me to show people my miserable, sad, negative side!  For me, I prefer to do that in a safe environment.  I think it’s crucial that I feel safe when I really bare my soul.  And why would I want to sing depressing stuff?
Don’t you like Leonard Cohen?
I used to love Leonard Cohen.  I used to sit and cry to it!  Why do you think I was attracted  to Scott Walker?  Everybody has that side to them, but I want to follow the light.  Why should I be depressed?  Fuck that.  There is a school of thought that says that I could maybe go there and God knows what genius would emerge, but I’ve chosen not to.
Do you think you could have been a drug addict or an alcoholic?
Of course!  Probably I would have more of a tendency to do that than most people.  I’m half Irish and half Scottish, for God’s sake!  And believe me, there is a lot of angst in our family.  But I have a very good support system and I feel very safe within that, so I am beginning, now to allow myself to be vulnerable.